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DICEYUK View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: Wills - important info
    Posted: 16/December/2015 at 20:29
Just been reading in our local Town Magazine (The North Walsham Times would you believe) that the EU has changed the rules regarding Wills.
Under the new ruling, implemented in August of this year, your UK Will is all you need -

"Under the Regulation, after 17th August 2015, any British national who has property in any participating EU State (and who has taken appropriate action before their death) can choose either the law of the country of their habitual residence, or the law of their nationality (or choose one of their nationalities if multiple) to govern the devolution of their EU estate".
Therefore the the requirement for a seperate Portuguese Will is no longer needed.

Checked it out on the internet & found loads of articles all saying the same - just Google "EU Changes to Wills"


I hate how peopleï compare Frank Zappa to God. I mean, he's cool and great and nice and everything, but he's no Zappa.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17/December/2015 at 08:38
Thanks Dicey

I was about to take out Portuguese wills for me and my wife but I'll just amend our UK ones now to include our Portuguese property and save myself a few quid!

Cheers

Simon
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17/December/2015 at 18:15
Thanks for this, just saved me 1000 euro in solicitor costs!!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17/December/2015 at 21:55
I believe that probate takes a lot  longer than it would with a Portuguese will  as UK wills have to be legally translated and accepted by the appropriate Portuguese authority. I've read an article somewhere but now can't find it.
Polli the dancing cat strikes again.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18/December/2015 at 11:23
Jayjan - you are right. I took out a Portuguese will to cover my property here, some years ago before the situation changed.  I received the same advice concerning my existing UK will. The two wills are cross-referenced.

It is very important to have a will that does cover your property here. If you don't, the property passes severally to all your immediate relatives who must then agree what is to be done with it.

They don't of course, and that's one reason for so many empty and decaying properties.

Of course, if the UK votes to leave the EU in 2017 you will need a Portuguese will, but that's something to worry about in a 18 months or so!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18/December/2015 at 12:21
I have only ever had the slightest brushes with Portuguese bureaucracy but even that experience leaves me glad that I have a Portuguese will. I'd hate to have to deal with the red tape if we only had Irish wills. Maybe better to spend a few € for the peace of mind.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18/December/2015 at 14:07
I think it would be a different matter if it was "only a few €" to have a Portuguese Will made but sadly it isn't.
You're looking to pay at lest €500, and probably a lot more, for something you've either already had done in the UK or for something you can get done at home for an awful lot less than €500.
A Portuguese translation of it wouldn't cost a lot either.
This is just another situation like the "fiscal representative" rip off.
And even if you had a Portuguese Will I'm not sure that it would save you from Portuguese bureaucracy.

I hate how peopleï compare Frank Zappa to God. I mean, he's cool and great and nice and everything, but he's no Zappa.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18/December/2015 at 16:32
I have heard & also read on different forums  that a Portuguese will can be  drafted  & certified by a public  notary  and its a lot lot cheaper than using a lawyer, but think you have to have two Witnesses  (friends/people not related to each other or you) Don't know the ins and outs of the procedure though. My UK will cost me £98 through my solicitor, wonder why the Portuguese will is so expensive in comparison.
Polli the dancing cat strikes again.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18/December/2015 at 17:10
Mmm. From Dicey's quote in initial post "in any participating EU State".... Is that the lophhole? Is Portugal "participating"?
It may be EU law but we know the Portuguese don't always let that concern them.
I also recall the need was also to cover tax implications as the "reciprocal" arrangements for this between EU States varies from one to the other, again contrary to the writings of Brussells!
Andrew
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18/December/2015 at 19:11
Originally posted by Andrew Andrew wrote:

Mmm. From Dicey's quote in initial post "in any participating EU State".... Is that the lophhole? Is Portugal "participating"?

The only Countries that have opted out are the UK, Ireland and Denmark - but this is only for EU Residents of other Countries who have property in the UK, Ireland or Denmark.
Therefore, this opt out does not affect people from the UK, Ireland & Denmark who have property in other EU Counties.
With regards tax, this change does not affect tax rules, which will still be applied in the country where a property is located.

The FT article is probably the most concise & informative
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/3d177916-4284-11e5-9abe-5b335da3a90e.html#axzz3uhVXasFg
I hate how peopleï compare Frank Zappa to God. I mean, he's cool and great and nice and everything, but he's no Zappa.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18/December/2015 at 20:56
Cheers Dicey, I am reassured that your happy this is the case. Thanks for the link but it takes me to a FT home site and a search doesn't find me the article you are trying to direct us to, can you just post an addy rather than a link, if that makes sense? Either way, thanks for this heads up, I, like I'm sure many others, will be acting/reacting to it.
Cheers.
Andrew
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18/December/2015 at 21:36
Because the FT is a pay site it won't allow links
Therefore use this link to Google Search Results for EU Changes to Wills
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=EU+CHANGES+TO+WILLS&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&gws_rd=cr&ei=pHt0VrzVKsOqUd_7iMAL
The FT link should be on the first page
If that doesn't work just Google EU Changes to Wills and it'll be there somewhere

And a summary from the EU website
http://ec.europa.eu/justice/civil/family-matters/successions/index_en.htm

From another site

"With immediate effect, you will be able to be resident in England and create an English Will that stipulates that English Law is to apply to your entire worldwide estate, including your EU based property. EU member states who are signatory to the regulation will then not apply their own (and sometime draconian forced heirship) rules but apply English law."

The regulation does not deal with tax matters, including inheritance tax as national law determines how inheritance tax is calculated.

The precise implications are currently uncertain as the UK has opted out of the regulation. What is certain though is that if you own property in the EU, you should be reviewing your wills and succession planning in light of the changes.

Your Will needs to state that you wish English law to govern your inheritance."


I hate how peopleï compare Frank Zappa to God. I mean, he's cool and great and nice and everything, but he's no Zappa.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19/December/2015 at 09:35
Again, many thanks for the heads up, we are already booked in for our annual review with UK solicitor in Jan, this will now top that agenda.
Andrew
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19/December/2015 at 09:41
My Portuguese will was drawn up by a solicitor, but had to be stamped and bished and bashed and boshed by a notary, prior to be lodged in the official depository. I forget what it cost altogether, but it was certainly a few hundred. That included bungs for a couple of people (the solicitor's clerk and a friend of the notary) to act as witnesses.

I got a discount for paying everyone in cash. No comment about that!

Another thing, which was slightly amusing, is that the will was read only in Portuguese and I had to affirm, in Portuguese, that I fully understood it. These words I was given by the solicitor prior to the event. This is obviously not uncommon! They are not allowed to translate  the spot, just in case.
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