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Apartment Sale

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Category: Tourism / Turismo
Forum Name: Miscellaneous / Diverso
Forum Description: Uncategorized topics / Tópicos váriados
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Printed Date: 21/September/2019 at 18:28
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 10.15 -

Topic: Apartment Sale
Posted By: DICEYUK
Subject: Apartment Sale
Date Posted: 21/February/2019 at 22:37
As you may know, we came over in January with the intention of selling our one bed apartment after having it for 17 years.
Our first step was to invite 3 estate agents round, (1) Remax, (2) Century 21 and (3) Mackenzie.
Well, what an education.
Their valuations & charges were as follows -
(1) 145,000 Euro @ 6% + vat
(2) 129,000 Euro @ 5% +vat
(3) 115,000 Euro @ fixed rate of 5,000 Euro + vat

We decided to go with (3) - most realistic price and cheapest fee.
The other two were a complete joke and each spent the best part of an hour giving us a complete load of BS.
Tried to convince us that we should add the estate agent & solicitor fees on to the selling price so that the buyer pays our fees.
I mean, what World do these people live in.

Anyway, decided to put it on with Mackenzie at 123,000 and employed a solicitor to do the necessary.
Mackenzie (run by Brits) knows the time of day, wants to get properties sold, charges a reasonable fee (by Portuguese standards) and doesn't give you a 60 minute marketing presentation full of garbage.

Our price was based on a similar 1 bed in the next block priced at 125,000.
Not as modernized or contemporary as ours but even so we wanted to undercut their price.

Anyway, to cut a long story short we independently found a buyer and things are progressing well so more of that later when the sale is completed.

We had had the Energy Efficiency Certificate done. Mind you, this took nearly 3 weeks from contacting the Company to actually getting the Certificate.
Unbelievably, it took 2 weeks from the guy coming round to actually getting the Certificate even though I had paid the invoice as soon as I received it a week previously.

Biggest difficulty so far was cancelling MEO.
What a joke.
I went to the shop in Modelo on Monday morning to give the 14 days notice that they require.
I even had a copy of my latest invoice to make things easy.
Spoke to one of the girls in there who said "ok" but she needed to make a phone call, which she did.
She gave whoever was on the other end of the phone all my details.
She then spent 20 minutes on the phone and was continually typing something on her keyboard.
Eventually she handed the phone to me and the first thing the guy on the other end asked was "how can I help"
Jesus I was raging and replied "I would have thought that the girl you have just been speaking to for 20 minutes would have told you. If not, what were you talking about?"

So we had to go through the whole thing again and he asked me if I wanted to transfer the service to my new property.
I told him (again) that I was selling up & leaving Portugal.
"If I could give you a cheaper price would you consider keeping the service"
For the third time in as many minutes I told him again that I was selling up & leaving Portugal and that I will no longer have a property in Portugal.
Then he asked me "do the new owners want to have MEO".
I replied "I don't know, best you ask them".
He then asked "do you know anybody else who would want MEO"
So by this time I'm really pi**ed off and basically said to him "No I don't. Look, I came in here just to cancel the service, not to do your job for you in finding new customers"

Then, unbelievably, and having spelt out my situation to him in no uncertain terms several times, he asked me if I wanted a Portuguese mobile phone.
"FFS, this is getting ridiculous, I just want to cancel"

Anyway, after another 20 minutes, so we are now getting on for an hour, he finally got the message and confirmed that my contract would end on the 5th of March and that somebody would come to collect the equipment on the 6th of March.
"No good" I said, "I'm leaving Portugal on the 5th and I won't be coming back".
"Can your man not come on the 4th?"
"No", he said "it must be the 6th"
"Why?" I asked.
"Because you will still be on contract on the 5th of March and without the equipment you won't be able to access it it"
"I don't want to access it, I'm going back to the UK"
"It must be the 6th" he replied.
"So what do I do?" I asked.
"You can take the equipment to a shop that accepts returns"
"Does this shop that I'm in accept returns?"
"No, but we have another shop near the Camara so you can take it there"
So now I've got to go trotting to Albufeira off next Monday with a bag full of bits just because they can't be ar*ed to come and collect it a couple of days early.

So I was in there for 1 hour and 30 minutes just to get my contract cancelled.

It appears that MEO are so desperate not to lose any customers that if they ever want to put your contract price up then just tell them "No, I'm leaving" because they will do anything to keep you.

By complete contrast we also contacted Algarve Removals as we have some stuff that we want to take home. An English Company and my what a difference.
I inquiry email, filled in a simple quote form, price confirmed and agreed.
All done & dusted in less than half an hour by email.
We have a 8 medium/large cardboard boxes, a rolled up rug and a set of golf clubs all calculated at approx. 1 cubic meter.
£125 + vat, pay in £ on a UK credit card over the phone when collected.
Collection next week, delivery the week after we get home.


I hate how peopleï compare Frank Zappa to God. I mean, he's cool and great and nice and everything, but he's no Zappa.

Posted By: mrandyd
Date Posted: 22/February/2019 at 07:58
Telecoms/TV companies all sound the same, one of my partners at work, in the UK,tried for over an hour yesterday to cancel his sky subscription first on line with no luck, then tried via phone but gave up, think he is steeling himself to try again today.

Posted By: port princess
Date Posted: 22/February/2019 at 09:14
Congratulations on selling your apartment and for advising us .many thanks Meo yes a nightmare .

Posted By: Cooknoe
Date Posted: 22/February/2019 at 10:55
Your experience with MEO brought back memories of when we bought our house here four years ago. We were told by our seller that the MEO contract had been ended when the sale went through. A month later, on finding a debit on our bank account, we found that this was not in fact the case (never got to the bottom of why, as we had been assured it had). Anyway, after some deliberation, we decided to keep with the contract that had transferred to us, as it gave easy access to the internet to my husband who was still in work. The only trouble, there was no modem to be found anywhere in the house.
Like you, we went into the MEO shop in Modelo in Albufeira, explained all to the girl in the shop who then phoned someone else, and we waited and waited etc. We were rebuked for having no modem, despite it being nothing to do with us, and could not get through to them that it had been removed before we moved in the house. In the end, we were handed a new modem, but charged for the privilege! We too spent well over an hour in the shop, and it didn’t end there as we ended up having to contact MEO to get them to come out to the house to set everything up, as instructions given by the person in the shop where incorrect.
On the plus side (as you say, MEO are desperate to keep customers), we were contacted a year ago by them by phone, and sold a new contract, which is about €20 per month less than the old one, and includes basic tv (no tv on previous contract). They didn’t however get that quite right, as they agreed to install in December 2017 whist we were here, but obviously got their wires crossed, and we had to rearrange as they didn’t turn up, and had booked the installation for February 2018. Happy to say we got there in the end, but we will certainly be contacting them when this contract comes to an end to see what can be offered.

I’d like to wish you well as you leave Açoteias. I dare say you’ll miss it after so many years here, and I hope you keep in touch with the forum. If anything new crops up around the Roja Pé/Açoteias area, I shall post on here. Recently retired, we are now spending much more of our time over here.

Posted By: tonisdad
Date Posted: 22/February/2019 at 18:15
"Does this shop that I'm in accept returns?"
"No, but we have another shop near the Camara so you can take it there"

After standing half an hour in Algarve shopping outlet with equipment we were told the same  GGRRR

Posted By: DICEYUK
Date Posted: 06/March/2019 at 08:13
The MEO saga, continued
So on Monday morning, as previously instructed, I went along to the MEO shop at the back of the Camara with a bagfull of equipment - everything including cables etc.
I did not want any further excuses.
Got there just after 10am and I was the only customer.
One young guy behind the counter so I went up to him, gave him my account details and explained that I was returning the equipment and why.
He looked up my account details and said "your service does not get disconnected until tomorrow so you cannot bring the equipment back until after the service has been disconnected. You will need to come back tomorrow and we can do it then"
So I explained my situation, told him that the other shop in Modelo, and whoever I was speaking to on the phone, had told me to bring it in today.
"I'm sorry" he said "but I cannnot accept it until tomorrow"
So I ask him why
"It's the rules"
I said "Look, I will not be able to come in tomorrow as I'm going back to the UK. Can't we just pretend that today is Tuesday, you keep the equipment for 1 day, give me a receipt and we'll all be happy"
"I'm sorry Sir but that is not possible"
As you can imagine I am now close to losing it.
"Can I speak to the Manager"
"I'm sorry Sir but that is not possible.
So I told him that I was not leaving until (a) he had accepted the equipment and (b) that he gave me a receipt for it.
I said " this is ridiculous. I have equipment that I no longer need and that you want back, I was told to bring it here today and you're telling me that I have to return it tomorrow. What bloody difference does it make"

Just then another assistant appeared. She spoke to him in Portuguese for about 10 minutes and then he said to me "ok, we have decided in your case to make an exception"
So I told them that the whole thing is so stupid that you shouldn't have to make an exception.

I went on to tell them that in all my time in Portugal I had never dealt with any Company that was as bad as MEO and that, even though they were "only following the rules and it wasn't their fault" their customer service was non existent.
They looked at each other and smiled.
I thought that that just summed it up.

Anyway, nearly one hour laterI walked out of the shop, receipt for returned equipment firmly in hand.

Hopefully this will be the end of it all but I won't be holding my breath.

I hate how peopleï compare Frank Zappa to God. I mean, he's cool and great and nice and everything, but he's no Zappa.

Posted By: DICEYUK
Date Posted: 10/April/2019 at 10:34
Well MEO worked out ok in the end and we got a final bill.
So that's us almost done and dusted now - deeds signed and money transferred, in full, to our solicitor.

We are now just waiting for the final bills to be paid and the accounts to be submitted for Capital Gains Tax.

It has taken around 8/9 weeks from start to completion.

We were going to put it up for sale for 123,000 Euro but before we signed a contract with an Estate Agent, we got an independent offer for 120,000 Euro which we accepted.

As our bottom line would have been 115,000 Euro, and as we saved around 7,000 Euro on extortionate Estate Agent fees, we are very happy getting 12,000 Euro more than we originally anticipated.

After paying fees, expenses, Capital Gains Tax and transferring the money back to the UK, we should clear £90,000 if the exchange rate stays at around 1.16 (or 0.86).

It is very handy that for Capital Gains you are allowed to add inflation to the original purchase price which for the period 2002 to 2018 came out at just over 31%.

That will have saved us around 22,000 Euro in tax.

So after deducting that and all our other fees we will end up paying Capital Gains of 28% on 44k Euro instead of 66k Euro.

We paid £57,000 (exchange rate of 1.64) for it in 2002 and have probably spent another £10,000 on improvements since (new kitchen, bathroom, floor retiled throughout etc).

Since then we have visited well over 100 times, spent a cumulative total of 7+ years there and we will still come out with a profit of around £23,000.

Basically we have had 17 years of holidays, both short & long, and all that has really only cost us what we paid to get there and back.

We have enjoyed our time in Portugal but it is now time to move on to something new and different.

Thanks to everyone on this forum for their help, advice and comments.

I hate how peopleï compare Frank Zappa to God. I mean, he's cool and great and nice and everything, but he's no Zappa.

Posted By: cubsur
Date Posted: 10/April/2019 at 11:59
Wherever the next phase takes you, I hope you enjoy it as much as you have here. Good luck!

Albufeira Resident public transport information for the Algarve

Posted By: tonisdad
Date Posted: 10/April/2019 at 16:18
Good luck Dicey.Hope you still drop in.......Even if only to gloat that Norwich have won the Championship WinkWink

Posted By: Jayjan
Date Posted: 10/April/2019 at 18:36
Dicey make sure you get  good accountant to do your capital gains tax return. Plus you can't file it until  a certain month in the following year after you have sold. We sold in Sept 2015 and couldn't file the CGT return  with tax office until  the following  May 2016 (unless they have changed it since then) We had a nightmare with the tax office with ours due to an inept accountant who never sent our paperwork in for proof, even though we had previously  paid the bill they asked for us to pay into tax office  in Sept 2016,so they then  doubled our bill 5 months later. It took 18 months to eventually sort it, we ended up having to do a Reclamacao Graciosas   (literally meaning gracious complaint)  to Lisbon tax office which cost us more money. Eventually they accepted everything was OK and nothing more to pay.So stressful though not knowing what  the outcome would be. Good Luck !!!!

Polli the dancing cat strikes again.

Posted By: port princess
Date Posted: 10/April/2019 at 19:27
Wishing you all the very best in your next chapter you have provided us with lots of very useful information over the years x

Posted By: DICEYUK
Date Posted: 11/April/2019 at 08:54
Thanks Jayjan but everything is in the hands of our Solicitor.
They have organised the Accountant and the email I received from my solicitor regarding the completion & receipt of the money seems to indicate that the tax will be sorted out fairly quickly.

"The final deeds is signed and the sale price received.
I wait now information of the accountant about the amount of capital gaines tax to be paid and after I will transfer the balance, less capital gaines, expenses and fees, to the Bank account that you leave with me.

As soon as I receive the information from the accountant I let you know."

That to me doesn't sound like it's going to take months.

I hate how peopleï compare Frank Zappa to God. I mean, he's cool and great and nice and everything, but he's no Zappa.

Posted By: malagabob
Date Posted: 11/April/2019 at 09:34
Best of luck, don’t forget to look in on us in the future.

Never put off something that you could do today

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