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More ruins to admire

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cubsur View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cubsur Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15/June/2020 at 16:42
Well whoever owns it had better make up their minds soon, or the the thing will become really dangerous and be demolished by the council as a danger to public safety.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Teresa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/March/2021 at 17:50
Just scrolling through posts and found this... how sad!  Could be such a beautiful property.  I know people who live near the marina and there are abandoned properties near their home as well.  We never see properties abandoned here in Canada (at least, I haven't) and especially not in such a beautiful location!  With or without a direct view of the ocean, just the proximity to the beaches, cliffs, town makes it incredible to me that the properties are left to rot!  Do these properties not hold their value?  I think I know where this is located and I would've thought this would be prime location for a business, AirBnb or a home.   Does the property value truly not warrant the cost of repairs?

I wish I could buy it!  lol  I only need to win a lottery!  :D
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Algarveaddick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/March/2021 at 07:33
Originally posted by Teresa Teresa wrote:

Just scrolling through posts and found this... how sad!  Could be such a beautiful property.  I know people who live near the marina and there are abandoned properties near their home as well.  We never see properties abandoned here in Canada (at least, I haven't) and especially not in such a beautiful location!  With or without a direct view of the ocean, just the proximity to the beaches, cliffs, town makes it incredible to me that the properties are left to rot!  Do these properties not hold their value?  I think I know where this is located and I would've thought this would be prime location for a business, AirBnb or a home.   Does the property value truly not warrant the cost of repairs?

I wish I could buy it!  lol  I only need to win a lottery!  :D

The chances are you couldn't buy it even if you wanted to Teresa. A Portuguese friend told me, in the case of old properties, that it is due to Portuguese inheritance law. The deceased has to leave their estate to their children equally, even if they don't wish to. In some cases siblings don't get on and refuse the other(s) the right to occupy the house or refuse co-operate on the sale of the property. Often one child has disappeared abroad and cannot be contacted, so an impasse is reached (there must be a statute of limitations, but I assume it is a long, long time). 

In the case of modern places like Crown Plaza, Oceano and the mess above the shops on the easter side of Avenida da Liberdade, it is usually developers going bust or failing to obtain the correct construction licences. 

This is what I was told, if anyone knows better please put me straight. 

As a Brit criticising ridiculous political decisions made by other countries is, I know, the height of irony, but the Portuguese law makers really need to sort all this out.     
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote AJSUGGY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/March/2021 at 08:45
Many years ago, I was told by a Portuguese businessman I was working for in Porto, when I asked about all these rundown properties he informed me that another reason is that if the owner dies and their are no beneficiaries, and has left a large debt, the buyer has to settle the debt on purchase of the property. Which is probably the reason the Apartment's above the shops bought in Avenida da Liberdade have never been bought and finished as the debt is to great to make a profit from the sale of them. Whether this is correct I don't know.   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote cubsur Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/March/2021 at 09:29
More or less correct in my understanding. Any unpaid bills associated with the property you buy have to be paid before the transction can be completed.

It's true that the owners of many of the older abandoned properties have simply walked away from them, perhaps in the hope that a buyer will come along and relieve them of the debt. And the inheritance laws are a mess as has been described.

The green tiled building was a prime excample of that for many, many, years but is now being rebuilt and restored at last.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Teresa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/March/2021 at 13:44
Thanks.  All the explanations above do make sense now of all the properties I've seen around Portugal that are abandoned.

I have a small inherited property in a small farming town inland that I've been trying to offload.  I can't sell it as there really is no market for it so we're trying to somehow surrender the property but covid closures have delayed any resolution.  

I'd really like to complete it as I'm not familiar with laws and speak little Portuguese, so would just like it 'done'.  We are still paying property taxes; as I'm an heir on the property, I'm concerned that completely abandoning it will come back to haunt me somehow (ie I show up at customs and am told I have an outstanding tax bill to pay before entering country!  IDK if that can happen but would be a really lousy way to start a vacation!  lol)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Algarveaddick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/March/2021 at 13:52
If you are prepared to "give it away" I am positive you will find someone to take it off your hands Teresa - there's always a person who wants a remote getaway. Where exactly is it?  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Teresa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/March/2021 at 14:26
It's approx. 2.5 hours northeast of Lisbon.  It's still a ways northeast past Coimbra but that's the closest large city that I know.

I really don't think there is anyone who would be interested.  There is a building that must be demolished, so a 'cost' to begin with...  then there are a couple of very small plots of land that are in the middle of forests (but trees were burned in the large fire a few years ago), as the property is quite small, selling for the value of trees/wood would be little value (and, again, a very specific buyer) and, what trees were there, are now gone anyway.  This land also incurs a cost as we need to 'maintain/clean' the land (not sure what that means exactly but it's just another cost to us).  Also, the town is very small...  I think less than 1,000 people??  So few amenities...  one very small grocery store, one pub/restaurant, etc.

I'd like to get rid of it in bulk...  it doesn't help me to sell/give away one property without the others.  :(   We've tried finding locals who might be interested in it for free but no takers.

But, having said all this...  do you have any idea where/how I could find a person interested in taking it all?  I think the extra plots of land are a 'negative' but, as you said, perhaps there is someone out there.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote AJSUGGY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/March/2021 at 14:43
If you just walked away from it I am sure you wouldn't be able to visit in the future. Years ago you could have probably got away with it, but not now with todays technology that follow everyone around, you would probably get pulled on immigration check. Best of luck though.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Teresa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/March/2021 at 14:58
Yep, that's my worry!  I enjoy my trips there too much to have them ruined!  lol  Luckily, the carrying costs are fairly low but still...  I'll be happy when I'm done with them.  ;)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote cubsur Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/March/2021 at 17:10
Another abandoned project, this one in Rua do Vale Santa Maria


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote cubsur Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17/March/2021 at 16:41
Finisterra, near the old cemetery, nearly done. Looked like a couple of prospective buyers were having a loook around.




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote cubsur Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/July/2021 at 12:01
I was out walking yesterday in the wild countryside of Patroves when I stumbled upon this half built. Someone must have had money to burn to have built all this and then left it.


This is the vew they would have had, with Armação de Pêra in the distance.


This is it on Google Maps satellte - the square C shape in the centre

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Citroen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/July/2021 at 17:02
How do you find out where you're entitled to walk and where not?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote cubsur Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/July/2021 at 07:33
Good question. If it's fenced or walled off, marked 'privado' or obviously cultivated or inhabited, you shouldn't walk there. There are very few marked footpaths as such.  Otherwise, as I do, an obvious track may be walked on. I have never been challenged by anyone saying 'git orf my land'.
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